Snowflake Challenge: Day 14

[toujours_nigel]

Day 14: In your own space, talk about what you think the future holds for fandom.

I think fandom needs to be intersectional and federated. cesperanza's entry for today discusses the technical side of this far better than I could, so that, basically.

On the other side, I think fandom is deeply and historically Western, in ways that have led to incredible idiocies in the past (RaceFail, yo). In part this is because the Global South doesn't do fanfic etc in the same ways; in India at least the fannish impulse for films and books mostly discharges itself in the same way as it does for sports: fanclubs and events and cheering and legit temples I kid you not. Every Indian fanwriter/artist I've found online has been middle-class and upwards, and found their way into fandom through a love of Western sources.

(This is not to say that there aren't fanworks being produced in India, but they're not (by and large) locked into fandom in any recognisable fashion. One of the coolest remake-groups functions out of a tiny, ex-industrial town in Maharashtra, where they take Hollywood and Bollywood films and adapt them to their own circumstances: their best-known is a Superman adaptation.)

But I digress. I would love for fandom to be more accessible, and OTW's translation movement is a very good beginning to which I wish I'd contributed more. But also a space for fandom in other cultures and languages, which is one of those things that tumblr was really good for, because you could just go through the tags and not have to know the people involved, because a shared love for Bollywood or Indian history or (worse) mythology doesn't actually indicate that you'll like each other. Which... brings me back to the need for federated fandom, I guess.

Comments

fandom

[oldtoadwoman]

Interesting. I've always been aware of this cool way the Internet could connect you to people "all over the world" while simultaneously being aware that really meant "all over the English-speaking world."

Re: fandom

[toujours_nigel]

Increasingly less the case in general, but mostly the status quo in fandom, yeah. It is getting better, being made better, but it's something to keep in mind.

[greerwatson]

One of the things that was quietly obvious about MRF was the fact that it had members from all over the world. What was unobvious (until you thought about it) was the fact that all of them had to be able to muddle their way through a fairly high standard of English, even though many of the books came in translation. Some of our discussions were downright erudite.

Occasionally someone would chip into a conversation even though their English was clearly not up to it. They tended not to do so often nor stay active long, which is a pity. Given the effort they were making, they probably had insightfully different perspectives to offer.

[toujours_nigel]

All of this, but it's also a question--with something like the Alexander novels especially--of one's own cultural location, vis-a-vis the Alexander mythos, because that does affect one's concept of everything from concubines to conquest. I mean, I learnt about Alexander not so much as Greek history (which we mostly did in fifth grade as a list of Greek and Roman notables) but as Indian history, instead.

[greerwatson]

Well, he is Indian history. Also Iranian, Afghani, Egyptian, Turkish....

[toujours_nigel]

er, yes, that was rather my point. And that changes how I received Alexander the Great stories, v. how English readers and writers might.

[greerwatson]

What's not in that list of mine, though, is Britain. Despite the huge influence of some aspects of Greek culture on the development of Western history, the actual influence that Alexander himself had is ... surprisingly limited, really.

[toujours_nigel]

Well, yes, he didn't proceed Westwards, after all. Nor would it have made much sense at the time. And it's really Greece-via-Rome for Britain, so it makes sense for there to not be much Alexandrine influence.

Meanwhile, "sikandar" is just about synonymous to victor/champion in the Asian bits of the erstwhile Macedonian Empire, with aspiring conquerors naming themselves Sikandar Shah (King Alexander). It's an enormously different worldview than that of Renault's English readers, and it would have been good to have that accounted for. Certainly Renault's Alexander is rather British himself.

[maplemood]

This was a really fascinating post; cultural differences when it comes to "doing" fandom were something I'd never considered before--which proves your point.

[toujours_nigel]

Yeah. But it also makes it... so my friends irl who really like a book or film or show are unlikely to want to be Fannish about it in the way we understand as fannish, but they're still invested. So that becomes its own thing to deal with.

[greerwatson]

Of course, even here in the West people who do "fannish" are the minority. Most people who like a book/movie/etc just chat lightly about it, and maybe at most buy merchandise or get autographs. They don't dissect the details ad nauseam. They certainly don't write fanfic!

[toujours_nigel]

Oh, absolutely. But I have friends who do discuss details ad nauseam, but wouldn't write, because even the Read All The Things parts of our society are not given to fanworks in the same fashion. There's been a certain amount of fanart recently, but that's often monetised.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>On the other side, I think fandom is deeply and historically Western, in ways that have led to incredible idiocies in the past (RaceFail, yo). <<

The most visible parts of it are. But the whole world is in there, and there is some deeply anticolonial fanfic out there. Not to mention one SF invasion series that I had to give up after a few episodes because it was too good for its own good, but damn the Native American subtext jokes had me laughing so hard I couldn't breathe.

If this is an issue you care a lot about, watch for the cons -- WorldCon and some of the other biggies -- that have a fund to bring foreign fans over. Check around, somebody might be doing one targeted at India or other specific countries. If not, launch it yourself. More diversity is good.

>>In part this is because the Global South doesn't do fanfic etc in the same ways<<

You should've seen me trying to explain African science fiction poetry to the SFPA. *facepalm*

>> legit temples I kid you not.<<

Now that I would love to see.

>> Every Indian fanwriter/artist I've found online has been middle-class and upwards, and found their way into fandom through a love of Western sources. <<

Yeah, from what I've seen there's still a tendency for the culture to break along caste lines, and in America that mixes in with socioeconomic class and makes some weird effects. The well-to-do ones are kind of a culture unto themselves.

It doesn't help that most canons are also very middle-class. One reason I liked Supernatural for a while is it was the exact opposite -- the main characters are nomads who hunt monsters and they never have much money.

>>One of the coolest remake-groups functions out of a tiny, ex-industrial town in Maharashtra, where they take Hollywood and Bollywood films and adapt them to their own circumstances: their best-known is a Superman adaptation.)<<

That is so awesome.

>>But also a space for fandom in other cultures and languages, <<

There are language clusters on Dreamwidth, I've seen them even though I don't frequent them. A handful of my fans post in languages other than English. Anyone can start a community here. By all means, try to get together a handful of ... Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Tamil, or any of the several dozen minority languages? ... speakers. Even if you only rack up a handful of fanfic or meta, it'll make a big splash in a small pool.

Me, I do it with niche topics -- I have an autistic series, several asexual ones, etc. -- but I'm a big fan of languages too. One writer, or in crowdfunding one donor, can make a HUGE impact when there isn't much else out there. And India is such a rich source of inspiration itself, that would make a great cultural backdrop for fanfic. Heh, and now I'm thinking how awesome it would be to make iconic art of canon characters with multiple arms holding the symbols of their craft. Dr. Who with six different sonic screwdrivers. :D

[marginaliana]

I definitely wish I knew more about non-western ways of doing fandom. At some point I read a person's theory of collective vs. transformative fandom - for some people (traditionally western men), fandom takes the form of collection, memorizing facts and having every piece of merch and so on. Whereas for other people (traditionally western women), it takes the form of things like fanfic and art, taking the source and doing other things with it. That has always stuck with me as something that feels accurate to my experiences with other fans.

But then again, cosplay kind of messes with that divide and it seems like its own grouping. Which I have to admit I have struggled to understand in the past. So maybe we just need a bigger perspective of fandom as a whole, like, a Venn diagram.

[toujours_nigel]

Oh, I read that too! It felt very accurate to me as well.

[spikedluv]

I read one of her posts on federation and I was quickly lost. Maybe I'll try it again.

Thank you for sharing that bit about how you do 'fannish' in India. I kind of love the idea of fanclubs and even temples. *g*

Your hope for accessibility is a wonderful and necessary one.

[toujours_nigel]

Haha, well, I mostly do fannish on lj/dw and ao3, but yeah. This is even in my home-town: http://www.sanjayausta.com/general/temple-to-lord-amitabh-bachchan-in-kolkata/

[spikedluv]

That is awesome! (For the worshipers, if not the worshipee. *g*)